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  • #16
    Originally posted by RRacer70 View Post
    I will say a hard call on those nights who to support WCS or Mansfield for me. WCS has become a very well run track with very good racing that I want to support but I also would like to see the big races at Mansfield and support those. I just fear how the show would be run at Mansfield and would not want to attend the fiasco they had last year at their Great Lakes FAST/BOSS race.
    Yes hoping they have that cleaned up. Sounds like he may have partnered with Attica/Fremont on this deal. Hopefully they will be helping with track prep and running the program. No support classes for SCWC so hopefully it will run smooth

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    • #17
      Originally posted by RRacer70 View Post
      Mansfield did not have any promoters who wanted to invest in it as pavement as it sat empty so long.
      I saw Rich Farmer being race director? or something at the shows I attended so maybe he has an investment in Mansfield? That would explain Fremont not running.
      The track who will mostly be affected will be WCS.
      WCS has 4 nights of racing against MMS racing.
      WCS drops the sprints at their shows for the sprint shows at MMS and the late models when MMS has late models.
      So does Attica and Fremont have some investment in MMS where they are gaining and not losing?
      I was told by someone close to the scene that Attica was never contacted by Mansfield to discuss non competing matters. Attica saw the published Mansfield dates and then decided on their own to lay down. So, if this information is correct, it appears that Mansfield decided on a schedule and it was up to the tracks to respond. When a track closes for a night, they generate zero revenue. When a track races but runs lower divisions, the purse is lower but so is attendance. The season is short enough as it is, so laying down for another event ( Mansfield, Kings Royal, etc ) makes for an even shorter season, especially with rainouts, snow outs, County Fairs, etc. I don’t travel much anymore due to struggles with late night driving, so when my favorite tracks lay down or drop their primary divisions, I attend other sporting events, of which there are plenty year around. All this laying down or closing confuses me. For the first 30-35 years I attended races, no tracks closed or dropped their primary divisions when another track was conducting a special. Everyone did their own thing and survived. This newer phenomenon has become the new normal. I know this is just a theory, but I believe laying low or closing creates sort of an “ out of sight, out of mind “ situation. Maintaining consistency is actually important to some.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Muddy99 View Post

        I was told by someone close to the scene that Attica was never contacted by Mansfield to discuss non competing matters. Attica saw the published Mansfield dates and then decided on their own to lay down. So, if this information is correct, it appears that Mansfield decided on a schedule and it was up to the tracks to respond. When a track closes for a night, they generate zero revenue. When a track races but runs lower divisions, the purse is lower but so is attendance. The season is short enough as it is, so laying down for another event ( Mansfield, Kings Royal, etc ) makes for an even shorter season, especially with rainouts, snow outs, County Fairs, etc. I don’t travel much anymore due to struggles with late night driving, so when my favorite tracks lay down or drop their primary divisions, I attend other sporting events, of which there are plenty year around. All this laying down or closing confuses me. For the first 30-35 years I attended races, no tracks closed or dropped their primary divisions when another track was conducting a special. Everyone did their own thing and survived. This newer phenomenon has become the new normal. I know this is just a theory, but I believe laying low or closing creates sort of an “ out of sight, out of mind “ situation. Maintaining consistency is actually important to some.
        I personally asked Brian Carter @ Charlotte during the Finals about this event and he said neither the Outlaws nor Tony and the All Stars were approached about this event as sanctioning bodies. They were notified of when it was and "hoped they would cooperate."

        At that point I knew I would not care about attending this event. I can appreciate a promoter risking a big event and approaching a sanction about special stipulations for rain dates, sanction fees regarding rain dates, format,etc. However there was no intent other than "here is my show." Historically, the sprint car world shuts down in honor of the Knoxville Nationals and Cody scheduled a big show against them last year. After attending the 3 hour track prep sessions to start late last year and knowing the lack of interest to work with other tracks and sanctions, I can not honestly agree with his approach and saying "it's good for sprint car racing". Maybe it will change down the road, but wish Mansfield luck without my money.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by dzirzow View Post

          I personally asked Brian Carter @ Charlotte during the Finals about this event and he said neither the Outlaws nor Tony and the All Stars were approached about this event as sanctioning bodies. They were notified of when it was and "hoped they would cooperate."

          At that point I knew I would not care about attending this event. I can appreciate a promoter risking a big event and approaching a sanction about special stipulations for rain dates, sanction fees regarding rain dates, format,etc. However there was no intent other than "here is my show." Historically, the sprint car world shuts down in honor of the Knoxville Nationals and Cody scheduled a big show against them last year. After attending the 3 hour track prep sessions to start late last year and knowing the lack of interest to work with other tracks and sanctions, I can not honestly agree with his approach and saying "it's good for sprint car racing". Maybe it will change down the road, but wish Mansfield luck without my money.
          I am not gonna bash a guy taking a risk and promoting one of the highest paying races in the country for sprint cars. Why does he have to pat everyones back? Have you ever been in sales before? When someone goes and tries to take your business, they do not call you and make sure it is ok. The guy is putting up big money. Why does he have to pay a sanctioning fee to go along with it?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Jay72c View Post

            I am not gonna bash a guy taking a risk and promoting one of the highest paying races in the country for sprint cars. Why does he have to pat everyones back? Have you ever been in sales before? When someone goes and tries to take your business, they do not call you and make sure it is ok. The guy is putting up big money. Why does he have to pay a sanctioning fee to go along with it?
            He doesn't have to pat anyone's back nor work with any other tracks, or pay any sanction fees. But when arguably the 2 most successful dirt tracks in the country (Knoxville & eldora) feel the need to bring a sanctioning body into their marquee events I would question my logic for doing it otherwise.
            I wish them well on all fronts and all the stars align for them but I'm only cautiously optimistic that happens.

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            • #21
              Did Earl sanction any of his really big races? I don't remember the Mopar Million being a sanctioned event, or The Historical Big One, or The King's Royal, or The Dream, and as far as I know the World 100 is still non sanctioned. I believe its been pretty recently that the Kings Royal has become sanctioned. It originally ran under All Star rules and didn't allow aluminum block motors but was non sanctioned. I'm sure Cody is aware that he will lose some drivers and fans being non-sanctioned but in the end its his money and he can choose to spend it how he sees fit. Just like the fans have the option to attend or not attend. On a side note his Dirt Million race is sanctioned by the Lucas Oil Late models.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Zig27z View Post
                Did Earl sanction any of his really big races? I don't remember the Mopar Million being a sanctioned event, or The Historical Big One, or The King's Royal, or The Dream, and as far as I know the World 100 is still non sanctioned. I believe its been pretty recently that the Kings Royal has become sanctioned. It originally ran under All Star rules and didn't allow aluminum block motors but was non sanctioned. I'm sure Cody is aware that he will lose some drivers and fans being non-sanctioned but in the end its his money and he can choose to spend it how he sees fit. Just like the fans have the option to attend or not attend. On a side note his Dirt Million race is sanctioned by the Lucas Oil Late models.
                The KR is now sanctioned and was for a while when Earl was at the helm. I'm likely getting some things messed up because it seems either the KR or HBO started out as a WoO sanction then went away from it and then back to it?? Either way Earl had the respect of the sanctions because ALL of the big names were there.

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                • #23
                  If it was sanctioned by woo then you would only get 50 cars max. im ok with the woo guys not being there and seeing someone who's not an outlaw win 100k this year. Plus it gives smaller teams a chance at a good payday like the wcs regulars. im going to Mansfield at least Friday night just to see a different show. teams from all different states will be coming in for this show and some that I never seen before like the 69k from eastern,pa. If you want the same cars as the kings royal with Donny schatz winning then woo sanction it. im happy to see something different and still can see all the outlaws at Eldora, the doty and lernerville later this year. Enjoy something different or don't go. Place will be packed without you. Once this event is successful and becomes an annual next year the woo drivers will be complaining they cant be apart of it the sanctioning may change if cody wants it too. Hes calling the shots not wrg and that's a good thing for the future. you need more then one monopoly. Everyone gets tired of the same show over and over. Wasn't long ago everyone was complaining about the allstars being at attica regular shows on off nights and the actual allstar shows not being special. Go support 50 different drivers who aren't outlaws traveling to your state to put on a show. Some of you on here aren't happy with anything.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Muddy99 View Post

                    I was told by someone close to the scene that Attica was never contacted by Mansfield to discuss non competing matters. Attica saw the published Mansfield dates and then decided on their own to lay down. So, if this information is correct, it appears that Mansfield decided on a schedule and it was up to the tracks to respond. When a track closes for a night, they generate zero revenue. When a track races but runs lower divisions, the purse is lower but so is attendance. The season is short enough as it is, so laying down for another event ( Mansfield, Kings Royal, etc ) makes for an even shorter season, especially with rainouts, snow outs, County Fairs, etc. I don’t travel much anymore due to struggles with late night driving, so when my favorite tracks lay down or drop their primary divisions, I attend other sporting events, of which there are plenty year around. All this laying down or closing confuses me. For the first 30-35 years I attended races, no tracks closed or dropped their primary divisions when another track was conducting a special. Everyone did their own thing and survived. This newer phenomenon has become the new normal. I know this is just a theory, but I believe laying low or closing creates sort of an “ out of sight, out of mind “ situation. Maintaining consistency is actually important to some.
                    I agree. No track should lay down for any reason. There are plenty of classes to go around or bring in as something different. As I said in another thread this whole shorter season trend (17-19 events) doesn't make any business sense to me? How bout more creativity? Do something nice for your support classes with bigger purses or something with incentives, besides they pay your back gate week after week! What's wrong with bringing in a new class for a week or a big fan BBQ? Put your Fans first, listen to what they want and Deliver it, and most will support you no matter what your offering. With the short season scheduling and the future rain outs that Will come your looking at less than 14 total outings or less at some tracks, then they wonder why they cannot afford improvements and such? JMO based on what I read, and I do a lot of it.
                    Last edited by Racechasser; 4 weeks ago.
                    2018 Race Counter - Total- 2 + (Rainouts-5) Atomic-1, Attica-1

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                    • #25
                      The KR was un-sanctioned until 1996. And the first thing the WoO did was reduce the feature to 30 laps (96' only) and had the disastrous rubber down Johnny Herarra win*.
                      I like the SCWC the way it is for now with no sanction & no WoO participation.

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                      • #26
                        I won’t be attending this event ( per my previous posts ) but I agree with it being a true “ OUTLAW “ race - meaning no sanctioning body, with all the rule books and other beauracracy. Here’s a little history lesson : the WoO was formed in 1978 by Ted Johnson because neither he nor racers nationwide liked USAC’s rules and driver demands and restrictions. But, within 15 years of it’s founding, the WoO had more rules than USAC ever had. It is good for the sport to have a truly OPEN event, wherein anyone can enter. And, the money saved from ever increasing sanction fees can be directed towards the purse. It is quite possible to have a very competitive event without the guys from the World Racing Group. It might even mean that more teams will have a shot at the win.

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                        • #27
                          ^ I would agree with all that you said if and it's a big if, the track can run a well organized show and put on a event that I wouldn't hesitate to take a first time fan to.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Jay72c View Post

                            I am not gonna bash a guy taking a risk and promoting one of the highest paying races in the country for sprint cars. Why does he have to pat everyones back? Have you ever been in sales before? When someone goes and tries to take your business, they do not call you and make sure it is ok. The guy is putting up big money. Why does he have to pay a sanctioning fee to go along with it?
                            I have over 20 years in sales. I started in "churn and burn", "used car" sales type selling environments where you are only looking for the immediate quick sale with no chance at repeat business. However I now choose to do relationship building type sales, in B2B sales with account management. In these types of sales you may not get every sale due to a competitor, but you look for the big picture to maintain the customer long term.

                            As far as bashing Cody I stated facts. Fact about working with other tracks/series and my personal experience at Mansfield under his direction. I did not say I hope the track closes or he loses his lease or anything like that. I have never spoken with him personally and I know some have high regards for him. However, because of my sales experience maybe I question the short sighted versus long term viability of his events.

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                            • #29
                              You go back several years and tracks ran what and when they wanted with not contacting tracks with their schedule.
                              This was before social media became so strong and fans were in the stands and I believe the evolution came from loss of fans. Tracks worried about profit so they started planning not against each other for big shows.
                              Now my thought is Cody is going the correct route. I would pay more to see his race than WoO. The sanctions control too much of the race program these days. The fees they charge make most profit go to them not the track which is not beneficial to anyone besides the sanction. He can invest more into purse and his profit by not using sanction.
                              You have to pay for that track somehow and this does it.
                              I remember Earl buying up tracks and then not run them against his main show. He knew how to make a profit and put it back into Eldora.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by RRacer70 View Post
                                You go back several years and tracks ran what and when they wanted with not contacting tracks with their schedule.
                                This was before social media became so strong and fans were in the stands and I believe the evolution came from loss of fans. Tracks worried about profit so they started planning not against each other for big shows.
                                Now my thought is Cody is going the correct route. I would pay more to see his race than WoO. The sanctions control too much of the race program these days. The fees they charge make most profit go to them not the track which is not beneficial to anyone besides the sanction. He can invest more into purse and his profit by not using sanction.
                                You have to pay for that track somehow and this does it.
                                I remember Earl buying up tracks and then not run them against his main show. He knew how to make a profit and put it back into Eldora.
                                I agree with most of your commentary, which is well thought out. My concern is still with having tracks running reduced schedules or laying down. There needs to be a limit to this or it’ s going to get worse. This is not very scientific, but I’m not convinced that all tracks lose a significant number of fans when a special event is held somewhere. Many people attend only specials, so that doesn’t impact weekly racing attendance. And, many tracks have loyal, local fans who attend a specific track and don’t travel. Until it’s been tried / tested, the loss of fans is only hypothetical in my mind. But, I admit my theory is just that - a theory. If nothing else, this makes for an interesting discussion on a slow and cold weekend.

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