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2019 All-Stars (ASCoC) Season Thread

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  • #46
    Originally posted by DirtRacer42 View Post

    Not sure why you would care one way or another since you stay away from the All-Star/WoO shows anyway. You would think you would be happier knowing they aren't around as much.
    My intent was to get racing related threads to the top of the board. Evidently sarcasm is beyond your level of understanding. In part because it is brief, the post I quoted is one of your better efforts. Kudos.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Sprint14 View Post

      Few things about this that I still do not understand and I am legitimately asking about this so I do not want you to feel that I am being confrontational because you have been a promoter that will go on record and speak professionally even if fans are saying negative things about you or Fremont.

      I can see the FL argument on both sides and the whole 2day show $5000 to win. On one hand I can see where that is something different because it is a little bit of an outlier show and outside of a region. On the other hand I can see your point because it is unfair for the supporting regional tracks to be held to a different standard. The $1000 thing though, was this a requirement to have done or could you simply have said no we are fine, Fremont pulls enough cars and fans anyway?

      The point to the two day deal what that if any track is willing to pay at least the standard purse they should be allowed to have the show. Not just in Florida

      As far as the superstar power brining more to the table, what exactly do you mean by that? More fans, more cars, more money, less fees? From what I have seen a certain tracks, his name does bring in more fans although it is hard to verify exactly how many. Not sure $1000 dollar voice over is worth it or not. From what I have seen it appears that he has wanted to grow the series, however it may not be the way that you or other would have envisioned it. To me under Webb, the series was an Ohio based series with a couple trips to PA and sometimes out to the Great Plains. Under Stewart it seems he is trying to expand that territory and go to more tracks such as NY, Wisconsin, Illinois. Just seems like a difference in vision.

      What I mean by that is that having the connections to the large sponsorship and so forth one would have thought that the series would have been able to pay more and had a better tow package without the need to raise the cost to the tracks. I don't care on the expansion I have never mentioned that other than it was once the blue collar working mans series and now it isn't. I have mentioned that is just forward progress. At some point if the demand is there another working mans series will fill the void if the racers and tracks feel there is a void.

      Not sure what you mean on the comment "There was a time when Webb was in charge I thought it would be best. And today I know it would be best." Are you saying that the way Webb was doing things was better? I would respectfully disagree with that sentiment as towards the end of his tenure it seemed like people were so angry with him that they would have much rather started their own series than run under him as well. There was also the whole payment issue that was going on and while I believe everyone did get paid, it was not on time. Also under his management the last few years I believe he only had about 3 or 4 cars running at the end of the year, and only Dale Blaney at the end of his last year. I know that under Webb things were probably better for Fremont with the amount of All Star races you had and at the discounted fee.

      The comment is in reference to Ohio Speedweek if this was ran by the tracks as it is in PA the tracks, teams, and fans would all be better off. The series didn't build this event into what it is the teams, and the tracks did. It was originally Outlaw Sprint Speedweek and attracted the best of the best from all around as it still does. But it would do this with or with out the series. If you take the sanctioning fees and just some of the known sponsor money that would surely stay this brings in over $100k for the week. It currently pays out around $3500 a night in tow and a $10k points fund that was new just this season. So over 8 nights that is $38000 paid out of the fees and so forth. So now think of what could be done with this for a moment. Tow money could be awarded to the top 10 teams of the week VS the series only guys lets face it takes way more cars to make this a success than what the series brings. It could also have a points fund that would be $20000 and did I mention this could be done and the tracks fees could be dropped to just $4000 per night saving them $6500 per night. Now what can be done with the $6500? Better safety? cheaper tickets? added entertainment? Bonus money for quick time or furthest traveled? There are many things that could be done. Speedweek needs to be taken back by the tracks and the teams then and only then will everyone be able to see what it has for real potential. It is sad when one of the best tracks of the week has to not renew its date because the series has priced them out of the business and says it is because they don't have a promoter when in fact they have the same promoter as last season.

      The one that puzzles me the most is the comment about if all tracks who could host an outlaw race had one instead of Eldora. Granted I am just a peon in this whole sprint car world. I am just a fan who pays his ticket money buys tee shirts and concessions etc, but I still do not understand if tracks have money to pay a sanctioning fee and a purse, how the outlaws would say no to them just because Tony Stewart is telling them not to. I have heard others talk about this to and I am still not sure if I believe this. Its a hard sale to say that a business will not take money when it is offered to them.

      The politics that happen behind the curtain in this business isn't what you all as fans get to see. You get to see the handlers that have made a good living hiding the ugly. All the tracks that I have mentioned have the ability to host a show they all could pay the fee they can seat the people and they all want that show. Tony doesn't want the WoO events at other tracks especially ones that would rival his place as Mansfield has the potential to do. Look at the Mansfield effect now it has been great for the racers. The World 100 gets a purse increase why because something real is competing for the top spot. The King Royal had a increase and sounds like another why after 30 years of the same and record crowds? Would you pay more money for something if you were having record crowds and cars? Hell no you wouldn't but when someone challenges you for the top spot you have to respond and step up. They know that that show would be better at any of the tracks I mentioned and that is why the protect it from leaving. Why you ask WoO don't just do it? It is just like the purses and the challenge for the top I mentioned. WoO knows that Tony is the only one in the business who is a real threat to the top of the sanctioning body therefore they know they need to protect his money at the Eldora events or he could very well run them off.



      At the end of the day as I have said in other posts, I do not have a "local track" I live in the middle of the state and it takes me about 1.5hrs to get to any track. With owning part of a business myself, working full time, raising a family my time to go to the track is limited. The races I do go to are mainly Outlaw or All Star races because I know the car count will be good, the tracks will be good, the quality will good. I used to go to local shows before my son was born and I had more time but now, I cannot justify the drive for a weekly show and that is not a dig on the local racers. They are great drivers and great people and deserve any success they have. I do not think you are full of **** and at the same time I do not think the Stewart or the All stars are either. I am a fan of the sport and spend a lot of money each year on tix and try to go to as many shows as I can. The whole thing about incidents like this for me is being a race fan/customer/consumer is that I don't care about the behind the scenes B.S and politics that goes on. I care about the racing and I will go to the tracks/events that will give me the best of that.

      And at the end of the day tracks, teams, fans, and sanctioning bodies need you to come out buy that ticket, drink that beer, and buy that shirt to make it all work. I posted my post to reply to the many many people who have asked the questions. I appreciate the fan and the racer and I feel that them understanding more of the business they will have a greater appreciation as to what it takes to make a night or a season go well. The great thing about our world is that we are all different does that mean we are perfect or our thinking is perfect no its doesn't but in the end we all have a love for the sport.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by DirtRacer42 View Post

        I realize you was/is a big Webb fans, but come on man!

        Webb tried to be a mini-WoO tour just as well with remembering the "plains tour" that was a complete failure and at a very bad time as well. His group was so disorganized that the local fans in Ohio could go watch most of the All-Stars at Attica on a weekly basis at times especially early in the season. I remember fans all over the internet complaining about it and say why go watch a all-star race and pay more money when you can watch them either the previous week or the following week at Attica for a local price.

        At least this All-Star group when they go to a different area has 3-4 races that weekend so teams can get a pretty good chunk of tow money and also be able to race for good money as well.

        The reason the tow money went down is because they had 15-19 drivers/teams at one time as well when the season started. When was the last time that Webb had any type of following over 5 cars/teams? Most use to joke it was the Dale Blaney series since he was basically the only one following it during that time. At the start of the past couple of years the All-Stars had nearly 20 cars that planned to start out with the All-Stars and see where it took them.

        Took them to 7 finishing the season. I believe less than any other 410 series in the country from what I have read.

        Teams move on, drivers move on, and fans move on it is part of racing. I know you want to make the All-Stars not that big of deal because you wanted your FAST series to be a mini-all-star series as you moved them away from the local scene just like your complaining about the all-stars doing. This past season for the All-Stars was one of the best in a very long time with the size of crowds, the HUGE car counts, the bigger names that either followed the season for all/most of the season along with the invaders that came and supported these events as well.
        First off was never a Webb fan you are free to ask anyone who was close to the end of the deal and they will tell you the truth. I also agree that he sucked at some of the things he did. However can't be denied that he had a better points fund and tow money up until this last season. He too would start the season strong most seasons. Onto the FAST comment I never wanted to grow beyond the area we had natural weekends off and there was opportunities for our teams to race so I just helped them get events that paid fair. Also in all those events we never charged not one dime for the event. I did it to help the people who supported the series. Tonight I will hand out over $30k in prize money to those teams every dollar earned is paid to the teams and I am the only 410 series who can say I did it for the racers and the sport not for my own gains. I will also agree that the All Stars had the best line up in a very long time it will be interesting to see if that line up is there this coming season.

        Comment


        • #49
          Just a clarification regarding “ DirtRacer42 “ comment about the All Stars “ Thunder Through The Plains “. That mini series began long before Guy Webb. It was during the Bert Emick presidency and speaking from first hand knowledge ( I attended most of those ) , that series of events out west was quite successful. Excellent fields of cars at places like Witchita, Tulsa, Oklahoma City, Sedalia, Salina, etc. When the NCRA dropped 410’s out west in favor of 360’s, the concept declined and eventfully disappeared under Webb. Now, as far as all these arguments are concerned, I stopped attending all All Star events when Tony Stewart decided to engage in retribution. If he is truly a supporter of grass roots racing, he should reinstate Fremont. Enough of this bantering, temper tantrums, and retaliation ( by all parties ). Not having an All Star race at Fremont in 2019 is tragic. The Fair Board ( new promoter ) won’t survive on 500-700 people in the grandstands for weekly events. They launched a $ 1.2 million Capital Campaign in 2017 to generate donations for long term improvements to the grounds, and I can’t see them using those funds to support losses from racing.

          Comment


          • #50
            There were 10 teams who finished the all stars this season. Baugman-Reutzel 87, Buch 13, Norman/Gaerte 3G, Hunter 10H, Destiny 4, Premier 70, McGhee 11, Jessup 7k, Spithaler 22, and Esh 35.
            2019 Race Counter: 3
            Attica (1), Fremont (1), Lawrenceburg (1)

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by racemak View Post

              My intent was to get racing related threads to the top of the board. Evidently sarcasm is beyond your level of understanding. In part because it is brief, the post I quoted is one of your better efforts. Kudos.
              Your "get off my lawn" type of post is hard to deceiver sarcasms on a message board.
              2019 Race Counter: 7
              All-Stars: 5
              World of Outlaws: 2
              Tracks: Bubba (3), Volusia (4).
              Rain: 1

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by GTigers55 View Post
                There were 10 teams who finished the all stars this season. Baugman-Reutzel 87, Buch 13, Norman/Gaerte 3G, Hunter 10H, Destiny 4, Premier 70, McGhee 11, Jessup 7k, Spithaler 22, and Esh 35.
                and Jac only missed what 4-5 races as well?
                2019 Race Counter: 7
                All-Stars: 5
                World of Outlaws: 2
                Tracks: Bubba (3), Volusia (4).
                Rain: 1

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by DirtRacer42 View Post

                  Not sure why you would care one way or another since you stay away from the All-Star/WoO shows anyway. You would think you would be happier knowing they aren't around as much.
                  Thought his comment very comical considering they been spamming the board and then best part was your come back being exactly same thing that could be said for you & Fremont.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Rich Farmer View Post


                    And at the end of the day tracks, teams, fans, and sanctioning bodies need you to come out buy that ticket, drink that beer, and buy that shirt to make it all work. I posted my post to reply to the many many people who have asked the questions. I appreciate the fan and the racer and I feel that them understanding more of the business they will have a greater appreciation as to what it takes to make a night or a season go well. The great thing about our world is that we are all different does that mean we are perfect or our thinking is perfect no its doesn't but in the end we all have a love for the sport.
                    I understand your points and they are valid. I get the whole 2day show thing and the fees but hypothetically let's say you kept the races on the schedule at Fremont the year all of this happened. Assuming no rainouts, would you have made money (profit) on those events? I understand that you may not have made as much money compared to how things were running under the previous owner but would you still have made a profit?

                    Reason I ask is because I go to races all across the state and sometimes western PA, and when the All Stars are there I see a big crowd. Obviously I do not have attendance numbers but when I go to tracks like Attica Atomic and Wayne County the stands are pretty full. Each year since Stewart has owned the All Stars these tracks continue to schedule the All Stars which tells me as a bystander that they must still make enough money to value wanting to reschedule the series. Especially Wayne County with having 5 this year. Bigger question would be, would you honestly say you would have made more or less money each of the past 3-4 seasons if you still had the All Stars racing at Fremont?

                    The WoO scheduling note still is a hard sell to me. I understand their are politics in racing and in every company. But it is hard to believe that a guy that spent the whole year basically complaining that a sanctioning body wouldn't let him sale t-shirts at a race, and out of protest he said he would not be racing any sanctioned outlaw races because of that, has enough pull to make the same sanctioning body not schedule with other tracks in the state. It is easier for me to believe that Eldora being Eldora and the history is an instant attraction for the Outlaws to have more races. I know that Fremont has had Outlaw races in the past & so has Attica/Lima for the Brad Doty classic. Is the reason that Fremont had not scheduled an Outlaw race the past few seasons because they did not want to come back? The Outlaw schedule usually follows the same mold each year and a number of tracks are the same year to year. It seems that those tracks get first dibs on whether or not they want to keep their date or not?

                    I get the whole economics of the Kings Royal payout and I have said for years when people complain about the purse, why would you pay more money to the winner when you get a great field of cars and a sellout crowd each year? Make 0 sense and is economics 101. Yes Mansfield has come in to I guess rival it a little bit but that is in any industry. If I own any business and I am the only one in the industry I can pay the workers that are skilled in that industry almost whatever I want to because I can set the market (setting aside local economic features). But if someone else comes into the industry and starts paying higher wages, then yes I would have to look at my pay structure in order to keep my labor, especially if it is a skilled one. I don't really fault Eldora for keeping the Winners share the way it is and actually last year the only position that won more money at the Mansfield race vs Kings Royal was first. Second place paid the same and every position on down paid more at Eldora than Mansfield. If the All Stars were as evil of an empire as some people (not you) say that they are, they could have had an event on the same date at Eldora as Mansfield this past year and last year, had a big payout and most likely could have drawn more fans, or at least enough fans away to prevent Mansfield from doing it again.

                    I respect what promoters do and understand the risks they take emotionally, financially, and mentally. I appreciate what they do and I look forward each year to all the schedules coming out and seeing what events I can go to. Some of these "politics" that happen behind the scenes seemed to cause more of a lost opportunity than anything. I guess I think about it like in my line of work in purchasing, my job is to give my company the best opportunity to make money. Sometimes that involves using a supplier that costs more and probably is harder to deal with but their history of quality speaks for itself and I know I will always have product on the shelf no matter what if I use them. The whole thing just seems like it could have been avoided on both sides but pride got involved on both sides as well.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Mansfield gets that rock problem solved and they will prosper.

                      TS has given exposure to dirt racing and done positives no denying that.

                      I enjoy the all stars.

                      I think if tracks actually worked together on some 2 day shows without sanctions that could be built up into something. Mansfield working with another track would be quite interesting.

                      All stars traveling to other far away states, I could see the members dropping cause of time and travel cost. Tow money does not cover expenses for entire team and the purse they race for does not either.

                      I think they are getting away from original concept of all stars. Ohio and border states was the deal.

                      Actual membership plus the 6 months down the road will be telling of longevity.

                      Comment


                      • #56


                        "The fans aren't punished they can always go to Attica, Eldora, Wayne County, Mansfield, etc..."


                        Talk about a "C'mon man". Do you argue just to argue or what? I would venture to say that you are the only person in the world that would think the fans of Fremont haven't been punished and suffered from all of this. Get real.





                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Blaniac1 View Post

                          "The fans aren't punished they can always go to Attica, Eldora, Wayne County, Mansfield, etc..."


                          Talk about a "C'mon man". Do you argue just to argue or what? I would venture to say that you are the only person in the world that would think the fans of Fremont haven't been punished and suffered from all of this. Get real.




                          So you believe Fremont fans dont go any where else to watch races? I am sure you have a small percentage of fans that are diehards, but most aren't I am betting and go to the best event they like or what place offers the best bang for the buck.

                          I live in the Toledo area, but go to Ohio tracks like Attica, Wayne County, Eldora, Lima, Atomic, Sharon, etc... to watch all-star races.

                          A lot if those trips I either go through or close to Fremont to watch those races. If Fremont had the all-stars I likely would go back there as well for those races.
                          2019 Race Counter: 7
                          All-Stars: 5
                          World of Outlaws: 2
                          Tracks: Bubba (3), Volusia (4).
                          Rain: 1

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Fact is Fremont deserves to get an allstar race. They run weekly 410s period. The fans their shouldn't have to travel.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              I’ll be at plenty of races this year. Both at Fremont & attica for the majority of local shows and then venture out for some other shows. All stars for sure, kings royal tickets bought. Mansfield I’ll be there too if I can get things worked out right.
                              2019 Race Counter: 3
                              Attica (1), Fremont (1), Lawrenceburg (1)

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by DirtRacer42 View Post

                                Your "get off my lawn" type of post is hard to deceiver sarcasms on a message board.
                                What is a "get off my lawn" post, DirtRacer. My strategy worked. The Movers and Packers are gone from the board. I guess they got off my lawn. And yours.

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